حالة سريرية
الوصف الكامل Background
Can you tell what is being done in this procedure and what is patient diagnosis?
Sun, 2009-05-17 20:48

ABIM
- Login to post comments
Can you tell what is being done in this procedure and what is patient diagnosis?
shot... where are the pictures?
I will try again
more pics
can someone show me how to show the pictures
دكتور بس بتعمل copy لرابط الصورة وبعدين بتلصقه بالتعليق + image icon
One hint: The patient initial presentation is acute abdominal patient , sever in the epigastric region radiating to the back. The pain improved later but another dull discomfort developed in the epigastric region not allowing him to eat.
Any idea?
بالنسبة للايكو ما شفت شي

ما خطر ببالي هو التالي التهاب بنكرياس تالي لانسداد قناة جامعة بحصاة و وبظن ما يجرى هو خزع مصرة أودي بERCP .
كنت ما بدي شارك بس قلت لحالي جرب
You are close . The first half is true. The patient had pancreatitis. but can you look at the second image (where there is a strapped blue wire) look at the mucosa there and tell me where is the scope ?
[img] On the ultrasound: look at the black space and the fine white line (pointed at with black arrows)
Picture6.jpg 9.17 كيلوبايت
[img]
Ok .. here another hint
For the US : you see one large "black space" . Usually black (anechoic) material is liquid.
The picture is taken from the stomach as well as the intervention . Any idea?
مخاطية معدة
معناها أنا شاطرة 
بصراحة ما عرفت شو هي العملية التي تتم عن طريق المعدة فدورت بالنت و طلعت بالاختراع التالي :
مريضنا تشكل عنده pseudocyst والعملية هي drainage the pseudocyst through the stomach by creating a small opening between the cyst and the stomach during endoscopy
هالمرة صح ؟
و ماذا شكلها هي السودوسيست؟
التهاب البنكرياس لاحقا قد يسبب تنخر بالبنكرياس بالاضافة لتجمع السوائل فبيعطينا كيسة كاذبة يمكن هي الظاهرة بالايكو باعتبار في ظل أسود = سائل


وبظن أفضل وسيلة لرؤيتها هي الCT وهي صورة
وهي صورة ترسيمية لكيفية تشكلها

صح
You got it. This an example where endoscpic treatment has progressed . Typically such patients used to be treated with external drain (placed by radiologist) or by surgery. Nowadays and espcially with the help of endoscopic ultrasound we can see the pseudocyst and puncture it with a needle then pass a wire and dilate the tract (by creating a whole from the stomach into the wall of the cyst to finally leave 2 drains (last picture) that will drain patients pseudocyst into the stomach .

Patient does not feel anything .
Here is a view of the same patients CT scan
the pseudocyst is the low density structure in the middle of the CT image infront of the spine and behind the stomach (which is partially filled with dye: very white and partially has air(very black)
thanx doctor ,I have enjoyed it
Ok
let me make the question a little harder.
This patient has recurrent pancreatitis for 4 years. However he had some treatment... that made him feel better for almost 2 years with no more attacks (there are some clue about that treatment on the CT scan)
But lately the pancreatitis recurred and was preceded with right upper quadrent pain and liver enzymes ALT 87 AST 55. Later in his course the pain resolved except the dullness and fullness described above and the latest liver enzymes
ALT 25 AST 44.
The patient does not know how alcoholo taste or smell and does not take medications except for bisoprolol for hypertention.
The question
1- What do you thing is the cause for his recurrent pancreatitis and why
2- What was the treatment that he had 2 years ago which helped him for a while
3- What is the recommeded treatment now
emmmm
شكلي عم صعبها كتير... ما
you can tell me frankly so I can avoid such difficult topics in the future
No doc,it's just the timing.......u know...exams are on the way.....
[eng]But lately the pancreatitis recurred and was preceded with right upper quadrent pain and liver enzymes ALT 87 AST 55. Later in his course the pain resolved except the dullness and fullness described above and the latest liver enzymes
ALT 25 AST 44
how did that resolved,I mean it was just the usual supportive Tx of pancreatitis...
O.K I have a theory.....
recurrent acute pancreatitis in the past years was because of gallstones....(whenever I hear reacurrent acute pancreatitis I instantly think of gallstones-is that wrong doc?? I do this cuz it is on of the two most common causes of acute pancreatitis,and on the other hand it doesn't cause chronic pancreatitis......)
so,recurrent ap treated supportively and then they found gallstones on echo ,so they decided to do sphincterectomy(whcih I really don't know if can be shown on the CT)
now for the new pain,,,
I'd like to ask a few more things:
the ruq pain that preceded the pancreatitis,how long did it last???
fever???
what about bilirubin???
alp???
[/eng]
well, it's really difficult.. beside i have zero experience in CTs... but i will take a chance...
although what mbs said seems so logical... i can't find stones in the gallbladder.. beside there is some thing like necrosis in the 3rd a 4th parts of the liver... so this is my theory:
i think there is something wrong in the kidney... it's large wit absence of calyculi... if i suppose that the are cysts in it, the i have the following:
Cysts in kidney + HTN + pancreatic cysts with recurrent pancreatitis + transient elevation in liver enzymes with CT image make me think of ruptured cysts (i'm not sure about this also
i know it's so imaginary... but i can't help
i would like to see UA and lower slides of the CT.....
I am impressed fouad
......
this is an interesting theory.....
I want u to be right,and want myself to be wrong...cuz I said it is seounds more logical and interesting than mine.......
My cosolation would be that I haven't taken nephrology yet,and don't know how to read the CT.....
Are those white shadows in the Kidney cysts????
and for the necrosis in the liver....I can see nothing ....
Fouad
WOW
I really appreciate your efforts and imagination. I want to pay your attention to
1- The white small objects in the gallballder bed along the edge of the liver.
2- The CT cut is above the left kidney (not shown here) and shows only small portion of the right kidney that is secreting the IV dye and you can see the renal cortex well enhanced
3- I am not sure why you can necrosis of the liver ? can you describe what you see in more details
mbs2380
very good analysis but you said
Can you tell us how do you think sphincterotomy is going to help or treat the gallbladder stones?
here some more cuts

but the pt had 4 years Hx of AP WHY DID they wait all that time ?
they could do cholecystectomy right ?
sphirectomy will help the stones in the common bile duct to pass out without making obstruction
I remember that in the management of AP due to gallstones(later after the pt is stabilize)they do cholecystectomy along with sphirectomy and T tube placement (AM I RIGHT?)
i'm thinking of another etiology like parasites or maybe idiopathic
can u doc give us other info?
The T tube information is rather old and obsolete. It is rarely (if ever done) after the spread of ERCP.
One more time you got it right drhanadi: the patient had cholecystectomy 2 years ago (and those white small objects seen at the site of the gallbladder bed are surgical clips used to clip the cystic duct before removing the gallbladder laparoscopically (try to see them in the first CT scan image)

So Fouad you did not seen gallbladder stones because simply there is no gallballder
So patient had recurrent "biliary pancreatitis" and he experienced good relief after laparoscopic cholecystectomy. Fisrt question answered
Now why did he have another episode of pancreatitis (with the pattern of liver enzymes mentioned above)
You can search "recurrent pancreatitis " and tell me what is the most common cause for it?
I thought that we can do the patient just sphincterectomy without cholecystitis.........
before u -doctor-wrote the answer my recommendation was that we do him cholecystectomy now.......
so :
recurrent pancreatitis......ercp and sphincterectomy
then an interval without any sumptoms(which is good)
but then a new onset......so now we can do him cholecystectomy.....
cuz for me the management of AP means :
stabilize the pt then search for the reason and fix it.......
so after stabilizing him they probably found that the culprit is the gallbladder (so here the point that I ask myself about: ERCP with cholecystectomy V.S just ERCP with sphincterectomy) before reading ur posts I thought that sphincterectomy is sufficient but then I read ur comments and
I first got upset cuz I thought that I started to forget the gastro (which I love the most among the things I 've learnt till now) ......
so I searched for an evidence and what I found is that :
Prophylactic cholecystectomy should be offered to patients whose gallbladders remain in-situ after endoscopic sphincterotomy and common bile duct clearance
based on this SR:
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab006233.html
so I am wrong but happy to know that it was a controversial issue one day.....and looking at the bright side ,I will never forget this inshallah...
sorrry for talking too much....